AGQTP+Online+Forum+Transcript


 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:39 || NSTSupport> || Hi Josephine ... Kevin (NST Support1) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:42 || Rod> || HI all ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:42 || Josephine> || Hi Kevin ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:42 || NSTSupport> || Kerin has logged on (NST Support 2) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:43 || Alison> || Hi all Alison here, youâ€™re facilitator for the forum. Thanks for joining in and welcome to the first on-line forum for 2009. A week ago Josephine emailed out a couple of readings and 4 focus questions to help guide discussion. What weâ€™ll do is allocate roughly 15 minutes for each of the questions.
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:43 || Alison> || Hi all Alison here, youâ€™re facilitator for the forum. Thanks for joining in and welcome to the first on-line forum for 2009. A week ago Josephine emailed out a couple of readings and 4 focus questions to help guide discussion. What weâ€™ll do is allocate roughly 15 minutes for each of the questions.

The questions will help guide some discussion around Element 5 Classroom Management â€“ and promoting positive student behaviour. Throw in your ideas on each of the questions and weâ€™ll go from there. The aim is to share experiences and ask questions ïŠ

So, weâ€™ll start with question 1 â€¦ 1. Patience can promote a well managed and positive classroom. What else would you include? What experiences have led you to think this way? || || haha, im guessing they are the naughty ones || is an area we would like to focus on || the teacher and the student is vital for us before we even begin to teach || use musical instruments || e have also seen interesting visual cues || And not just the bright students, either. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:43 || Eleanor> || Hi Gang, Have arrived safe and sound in Canberra. Not too chilly. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:46 || NSTSupport> || Prestons is online ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:47 || Josephine> || I think that body language is also really important in communicating positives in the classroom ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:47 || Alison> || Welcome Prestons - Have thrown up a question to get us started... more will join soon I suspect. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:47 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: how long should we be patient for when you have a particularly difficult class? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:48 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: you could be waiting for a long time for some classes ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:49 || Alison> || Patient in terms of a couple of students, the whole class? What are the types of things you do to have a well managed class? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:51 || Alison> || What are the types of things you introduce when you see a class for the first time? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:51 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: we all feel that you can only be patient for so long before other measures need to be addressed. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:52 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth Hello [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/grin.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:53 || Alison> || I agree - I think that the way question 1 is phrased may have derailed us a bit! Throw some strategies at us about how you help set up the classroom environment/expectations when you first see a class.... Let's talk strategies... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:53 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: for the students who can follow the rules they should be given rewards and for those who need that extra push to do the right thing behaviour books help a lot with coaxing these children to follow expected behaviours ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:54 || Josephine> || When I know that I have a particularly difficult class, I do some research and and get some ideas about what strategies work with particular students ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:54 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: expectations need to be set up the first time you do a lesson. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:54 || Alison> || Fabulous Prestons - Yes, absolutely you need to set up some classroom rules and have some idea about how to reward behaviour... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:55 || Alison> || How do you set up the expectations - do you put the rules up? Do you develop them with the class? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:55 || Alison> || Welcome elizabeth - we are just talking about how you set up expectations for good behaviour in a classroom... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:57 || Alison> || What about the actual classroom - how do you set it up for students to be able to work positively .... think about furniture/resources... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:57 || NSTSupport> || IBeing a small female and not wanting to start anything I cannot win I think silence or quietness can be powerful too. So waiting 30 sec in silence for acknowledgement ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:57 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: jointly between students and teacher we make rules that we all will follow. then everytime we introduce a new learning experience we talk about the rules that go along with that lesson ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:58 || Alison> || Great Prestons, that way everyone knows what to expect. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:58 || NSTSupport> || Kerin: My experience is that classroom rules work more effectively if they are made collaboratley with the students. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:59 || Alison> || Take up time is also important - asking students to follow instructions and giving them time by walking away ... expecting that they will do what you ask. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 15:59 || NSTSupport> || lars: hello everyone ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:00 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: we also have a focus each week e.g. being prepared or being respectful or making good choices ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:00 || Alison> || Hi Lars welcome - we are just talking about creating positive environments in classrooms. Students will have more ownership of rules if you develop them with them. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:01 || Alison> || What do you all think about 'consistency' in applying rules - is that important? why? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:01 || NSTSupport> || Meps > We are working on explaining and modelling clear expectations so children know the desired behaviours ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:01 || Alison> || A focus each week is good because it is a constant reminder of expectations and everyone gets the same message. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:02 || NSTSupport> || James: If you don't apply consistency, then the kids won't know where your boundaries are. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:03 || NSTSupport> || Meps > yes it is very important to have clear and consistent expectations in order to show students that there is fairness in the rules and that they apply equally to everyone ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:03 || NSTSupport> || Damien here Alison, I will be in the back ground of the group in Dubbo to help them out. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:03 || Alison> || Thanks Meps - Yes, modelling is so important cause kids watch aqll the time - and James yes having the same boundaries for all. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:03 || NSTSupport> || Kevin: You can also develop a 'How we learn' chart (e.g. 'We ask questions.') which is a positive approach, rather than a list of rules, which can be quite negative. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:04 || Alison> || Nice to have you Damien. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:04 || NSTSupport> || James: Question: how would you model your expectations to your kids? By keeping the expectations as well? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:05 || NSTSupport> || Lack of consistency also results in students feeling as though they mey be getting picked on ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:05 || Alison> || Yes, and rather than state 'you will not talk out of turn' phrasing things positively 'one person speaks at a time' or 'we stop and listen when others are speaking' ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:05 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - Indeed organisational skills is an important aspect to promoting a well managed and positive classroom. Being a visual art teacher it is extremely important to alway be well organised and prepared for lessons as it is a very practical KLA. Students tend to become disengaged if the teacher is unprepared as they are not directed on task. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:05 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: sometimes flexability is needed with rules especially the pointy ended kids - they need more leway with the rules and expectations than the other students do ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:05 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/cool.gif]] I work in Computers I emphasis that students respect the tools they use and respect each other by working in a team- social support ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:06 || Alison> || Christine Richmond has some good information about expectations, positive language - you can look her up on the net. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:07 || Alison> || Prestons - this is a fair point as long as all the kids see that it's fair. It's also about which consequences you apply for breaking rules. For example talking out of turn may require a frown or quiet warning from the teracher... Not the higher end consequence of being sent from the room! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:08 || NSTSupport> || Damien, I beleive that the kids at the pointy end are the ones that really need the consistency ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:08 || Alison> || Nice Elizabeth - also grouping kids so they learn from each other is a fantastic way to promote positive behaviour! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:08 || NSTSupport> || James: I suppose the consistency doesn't just involve your actions, but also your words as well. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:09 || NSTSupport> || James: For example, scripting what you say. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:09 || NSTSupport> || Meps>We will model the expectations of the children by being consistent for all children and activley showing students what positive behaviours look like ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:09 || Alison> || What about your teaching practice - how do you prepare lessons to set up a positive classroom. Elizabeth talked about group work - any other things you have found to be good? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:09 || NSTSupport> || Damien - Alison, Jacqi and Paula are also in the background for the Dubbo Group ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:09 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: all of our kids understand that the 'pointy end' kids have a lower expectation than them ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:09 || NSTSupport> || Lars: damien, i agree. the pointy ended youngsters can't be seen to be getting away with more than the others ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:10 || Alison> || James - scripting and practicing what you will say is really important. Also making sure that you say things clearly, slowly, and not in a high pitched voice (which tends to happen when we get stressed) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:10 || NSTSupport> || Kevin: Our expectations are also conveyed by the expressions we use, e.g. avoiding expressions such as, "That's quite good work ... for YOU!" ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:10 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth I like scripting or simply organising in my mind the discipline step one step two step three so I dont over-react ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:11 || Alison> || You have identified a good point around consistency - and ensuring that you have a plan in place. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:11 || NSTSupport> || James: Of course, not getting stressed is also a good idea as well, so that these things don't happen. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:11 || NSTSupport> || I believe consistency is on eof the most important aspects to positive learning in the classroom. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:12 || Alison> || Okay - let's think about Q2...2. Whatâ€™s Quality teaching got to do with student engagement and a positive learning environment? What experiences have led you to think this way? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:12 || NSTSupport> || Meps>it is important to have engaging resources that the students are able to use. We try to have aesthetically pleasing classrooms with children's work displayed and regularly updated ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:12 || NSTSupport> || paula - every thing ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:12 || NSTSupport> || Jake: re pointy end kids getting away with things - I agree to a point, however, sometimes you have to be unfair to be fair...I have a footballer who is getting a mark on his board of honour that some well behaved students might question. The things is though that he has made major strides and needs some reward. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:13 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: group work is good but it needs to be allocated correctly i.e. levels of students together. preparation is essential otherwise the students will be less engaged and this is when the behaviours begin ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:13 || NSTSupport> || Meps>We try to have hands on and interactive lessons. We also try to have the children find success in each lesson ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:13 || NSTSupport> || jacqui - this generally is the most difficult area for NST to grasp ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:13 || NSTSupport> || James: And also allow some kind of opportunity for the kids to discuss, peer teach etc. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:13 || Eleanor> || Its going well Josephine - you should be very pleased. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:14 || NSTSupport> || James: Such as, how your room's set out can affect how your students interact. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:14 || NSTSupport> || Lars: Everything! everything we do in our classroom should have quality teaching as the backbone, which as a result students are angaged in a positive learning environment. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:14 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - its all about knowing your students and how they learn, we need to focus the students' learning to the range of abilities in the one classroom ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:14 || Alison> || Excellent points! Jake re pointy end kids as long as other kids also see the 'methods in your ideas'.... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:14 || || font color=#000000>**NSTSupport rings the bell** ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:14 || NSTSupport> || management is very much in the forefront as a NST. I have found this year since working FT after two years' casual that it has noe become the thing I enjoy most about teaching when it used to be the last. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:15 || Alison> || Lorin, Lars and James tyou have hit on it ....setiing up your classroom and activity to expect success ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:15 || NSTSupport> || jake: sorry that was me discussing casual. Then again i am working in the private sector and it is a different ball game. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:16 || NSTSupport> || Lars:
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:16 || Alison> || A lot of what you have identified is in the preparation, thinking about how to set up groups, what kids like to learn and how - great stuff! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:16 || NSTSupport> || Lorin :) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:16 || Alison> || What we are talking about is developing RELATIONSHIPS! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:16 || NSTSupport> || Meps>can someone please expain 'pointy end' children? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || NSTSupport> || James: Between student and teacher, I assume. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || NSTSupport> || Jacqui- You have to love all yoursteudents just a little bit! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || NSTSupport> || Background knowledge of your students is important to focus on direction of learning and to identitfy the different levels of learning in the classroom ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || NSTSupport> || Jake: Lorin I agree and it is particularly challenging, Good relationships with students helps here so stronger can willingly help weaker. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || Alison> || What do you guys reckon - have you found that students in your classes have any say in the pace, direction or outcome of the lesson? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || Alison> || Pointy end is the top 1-2 % that are most difficult to manage.... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:17 || NSTSupport> || Lorin-oops i always forget to write my name haha ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:18 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: more student engagement. if they are more engaged there is more opportunity for that quality teaching to come out ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:18 || NSTSupport> || pointy end children are the tall skinny ones ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:18 || NSTSupport> || James: [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/rofl.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:19 || NSTSupport> || Jake: Yes Alison - you wouldn't want to lose the other kids' respect for the process. I guess my point is you can't always apply generic criteria to such a wide range. If you did you would have perennial losers and winners and little incentive. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:19 || NSTSupport> || lars:
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:19 || Alison> || Yep, Prestons, if they are liking the lesson and getting stuff out of it they are less likely to be belting each other in the head! :) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:19 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: find the child ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:20 || NSTSupport> || Meps>students definitely a say in the pace and outcomes of lessons for example children may ask quality questions we did not consider ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:20 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: find the child's interests and plan around that eg a book based around motorbikes if a lot of kids like that. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:20 || Alison> || Good relationships is a challenge - and it's something you work at constantly. i.e. chatting to kids in the playground asking them 'how was the weekend' - Kids know when you care and are more likely to respect you and respond... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:20 || NSTSupport> || [takes a note of Allison's words] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:21 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/hmm.gif]] Kids want good relationships with kids we are in the background like a good referee should not be noticed ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:21 || Alison> || Pace of the lesson is a good one - i.e. if you are doing a task and you see kids strating to switch off, you need to change the pace/activity ... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:21 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - about giving the students pace, direction and outcomes in a lesson, giving the students time to reflect at the end of every lesson is a fantastic way to give the students a voice about learning etc ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:22 || Alison> || Great Lorin!!! Do you ask students what they liked? what they learned? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:22 || NSTSupport> || jacqui - I think the balance needs to be considered about being friendly aand respectful with students and not needing them to be your friend. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:22 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - giving students who a reckless or have a short attention span jobs around the room is great ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:22 || NSTSupport> || Jake: Alison I am trying to get my students to embrace the wider goals so lessons build on shared understanding. Today for example I wanted to get several things done which were listed on the board but when I realised the students were so engaged with peer marking I let them continue. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:23 || Alison> || Just as a by the way there is an interesting paper on Productive Pedagogy by Gore et al at the following website address. Check it out after the forum at: https://detwww.det.nsw.edu.au/regions/riverina/proflearning/qualityteaching/index.htm ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:24 || NSTSupport> || Lars: I agreee lorin, very good point about reflection. taking the main points from the lesson and emphasising them at the end is a great learning tool ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:24 || Alison> || Jake - that's really great - often the pressure is on to get through content... but if kids are enjoying an aspect of the lesson - go with it! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:25 || NSTSupport> || Just back to pace (sorry to backtrack so far), but sometimes kids will tell you if your pace is off. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:25 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - exactly. Mainly i will re-cap what the students have learnt during the lesson but also give them a chance to give me information on what the students learnt e.g What did you learn the most about today? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:25 || Alison> || Jacqui - yes I remember being told the 3 f's Firm, Friendly and fair... Friendly ia about recognising others as human beings not being their best friend. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:25 || NSTSupport> || James: (Oops, forgot my name.) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:26 || Alison> || Kids will tell you if you are off pace... and the yawns are a sure indication... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:26 || NSTSupport> || Jake: The key to dealing with the pointy end if finding a way to connect. It surprises me how many tricky customers I now have a decent relationship with after a rocky start. This evolved from what Alison referred to as hard work. You have to make efforts with connections even if you are not in the mood. It certainly pays dividends. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:26 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth I refer to high school year 7 -8-9 where peers become your world as teachers and parents we are background to them ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:27 || NSTSupport> || Meps>consistently structuring in reflection of learning
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:27 || NSTSupport> || James: Like umpires, to quote. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:27 || Alison> || Sometimes it's alright to acknowledge with the kids when you are havin a bad day too! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:27 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - hmmm what if the teacher is yawning? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:27 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - i suppose we are modelling the behaviour right? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:28 || NSTSupport> || LOL ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:28 || Alison> || Meps - we may be able to find a scaffold for such purpose - ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:28 || Alison> || Righto -top stuff, let's go to question 3. The noise level in the classroom is getting louder and louder, what do you do? Give some examples from your experiences recently... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:29 || NSTSupport> || question three??? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:29 || NSTSupport> || Meps> having a positive rapport between
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:30 || NSTSupport> || James: Wouldn't it depend on what is the cause of the noise? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:30 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: some of us sit down and wait, some countdown or
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:30 || Alison> || For sure Meps - it's about respect - if students don't respect you it's a lot harder! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:31 || Alison> || True - James ... Probably also whether it is anoying to everyone or only to a couple of people... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:31 || NSTSupport> || Meps>year one is experimenting with auditory cues eg a shaker, we lower our voices so that they have to stop to hear. W
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:32 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - Stand in the position at the front of the room to direct the class ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:32 || NSTSupport> || Well, if it's unproductiove, but not annoying noise, you could count down, or go back top primary school and do "hands on head". ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:32 || NSTSupport> || It depends on my mood. Sometimes I bellow to command attention then point out the problem and possible consequences: Staying in at lunch, or if an assessment task is drawing near remind them of the need to focus. If I'm up the front already I sometimes wait expectantly until they pay attention which does not usually take too long. Sometimes I put up my hand. Sometimes it's a combination of all three. I have a very loud voice so it is easy for me to be loud without being angry. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:32 || NSTSupport> || Prestons: there is always a maximun noise level obviously the noise level will depend on the task ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:32 || NSTSupport> || jake: re volume that was me [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/lol.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:33 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth Look to a group you can work with.. who are quieter... chip away at the ice berg others may follow [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/distress.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:33 || Alison> || If a couple of students are starting to talk ... and you want them to listen ... and the rest of the class then also tunes out and strats chatting, you'd need some clear ideas.... Redirecting students is good Lorin before it gets to outta control! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:33 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - simple hand signals to be quiet....or moving around the room giving a presence and a simple gesture to stop talking ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:33 || NSTSupport> || Meps>Thank you any help regarding reflection scaffold would be appreciated ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:33 || Alison> || Elizabeth - yes, if it's only some students doing the wrong thing - praising those who are doing the right thing etc can help serve as a cue to others. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:34 || NSTSupport> || James: But I suppose we have to watch our volume as well; if we start yelling, then the kids will just up the ante to your level. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:34 || NSTSupport> || jake: just remembered a favourite: using names is a good way to cut through> "James, Sally, Jay..." as you call out each name they stop to look up and the silence spreads... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:34 || Alison> || Hand signals and proximity (moving closer) to noisy ones can be great strategies if it's only a few kids... as can talking in a quieter voice, using a signal like a shaker for younger kids... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:35 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth I had a real noisy computer lesson because every one was confused..I had a quiet lesson because everyone could do the task.. [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/wink.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:35 || NSTSupport> || James: Which brings us back to the point of making connections in our lessons. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:35 || Alison> || Sometime sabondoing what you are doing and splitting the class into groups/going with a different activity can help... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:36 || NSTSupport> || James: And also to the ability level of our class. (I think that's what you're saying, is it Elizabeth?) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:36 || Alison> || Yes - sometimes the noise is becasue they don't understand ... so checking students understand when you give first instructions is important. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:37 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - If there is a group being noisy, the best is to praise the rest of the students on task and usually this will redirect those who are not on task ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:37 || NSTSupport> || jake: Elizabeth: yes, often the noise is an indicator they are going off task though I think it doesn't take long to work out the difference between productive and non productive noise ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:37 || Alison> || Sometimes we assume kids know how to do things ... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:38 || NSTSupport> || James: [raises his hand; he understands making that assumption too well] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:38 || NSTSupport> || jake: re assumption being the mother of all stuffups Alison, I think all teachers get a surprise when it comes to marking assessment tasks and you are stunned that some can be so off task.. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:38 || Alison> || I guess that also leads into question 4....What does a quality learning classroom look like, feel like, sound like? You guys have described some of this already... what are the keys from your perspective? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:40 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth Its difficult to challenge the bright ones who want to be lazy and only do what the slow kids get done I need ideas ?? [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/errr.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:40 || Alison> || Jake - yes it is quietly scary when you realise you've spent 4 weeks on a topic and some kids have no clue at all! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:41 || NSTSupport> || Meps>engaged learners, success achievable, positive relationships ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:41 || NSTSupport> || Jake: for me it is about energy. I'm not a particularly organised person and I know some teachers would find my desks askew offensive, but if students are engaged (and I mean most not all) and they are actively putting energy into their work and discussion then i feel I have guided them to the right place. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:41 || Alison> || Elizabeth - have you tried checking the style of learning they really like and having them also help create their own assignments ... using technology is also good! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:43 || Alison> || Yes, that's good Jake... sometimes teachers also think a noisy class is outta control which is not the case! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:43 || NSTSupport> || James: Re question 4: Productive noise (students discussing with each other, etc), on-task work, class discussion with challenging questions and suggestions. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:43 || NSTSupport> || Meps>ideas to integrate into your practice provide engaging follow up activities, find out what engages the bright students and what they consider rewarding ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:44 || Alison> || Yes James - a sure sign of some quality teaching! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:44 || NSTSupport> || James:
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:44 || NSTSupport> || Jake: Elizabeth: Sometimes you can't beat laziness. But my suggestion is to look for ways to make it relevant to their life and this might mean knowing what motivates them personally. As an example I have had a difficult bright boy who was causing me grief in a film study even though he wants to be a film maker. When I found out he wanted to do this I was able to make it relevant to him in my comments and direction. Why he couldn't see the relevance himself is beyond me but it has made a difference. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:45 || Alison> || Thanks Jake - good suggestion! Sometimes they need a point in the right direction and some ideas... ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:46 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth A quality classroom where students create their own tasks(self regulate with explicit quality criteria) ....BRILLIANT IDEA i'll try it this week [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/wierd.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:46 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - it is hard to cater for EVERYBODY in the classroom ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:46 || NSTSupport> || Lorin - i struggle with it....but im always trying to find the right solution for each student ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:47 || Alison> || We also have to remember we are humasn! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:47 || Alison> || Human that would be :) ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:47 || Alison> || We are almost drawing to a close ... Thank you for those of you who joined us. Your enthusiasm and ideas are enspiring ... and it's not too hard to see you are on the right track - good lessons, building relationships with kids and sharing ideas with other professionals! any last comments before we sign off? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:47 || NSTSupport> || Lars. great comment lorin. best comment of the whole forum! ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:47 || NSTSupport> || You can please most people most of the time, but not all people all of the time. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:48 || NSTSupport> || jake: Elizabeth you might want to check out PEEL: the Project for Enhancing Effective Learning [|http://www].peelweb.org/index.cfm?resource=about I went to a PD and this is all about self reguation and motivation. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:48 || NSTSupport> || Meps>thank you very much ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:49 || Josephine> || Thankyou Alison and everyone for a very productive conversation. Our next forum will be in August on the accreditation process. i will email everyone. Have a lovely evening cheers josephine ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:49 || NSTSupport> || James: Jake, re PEEL, do you know when the next PD for this will be? ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:49 || NSTSupport> || my two cents: it's about relationships - not content. Without relationship there is no learning and the content becomes meaningless ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:50 || NSTSupport> || jake: james this was though catholic ed - but check out their website - you can ge tinvolved ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:50 || NSTSupport> || Elizabeth thank you I enjoyed this type of course very much now we are all in sync its over BYE I will check that site now thanks [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/wink.gif]] ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:50 || NSTSupport> || James: Thanks Jake. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:51 || NSTSupport> || James: And thanks Josephine and Alison. ||
 * JunÂ 16,Â 16:51 || NSTSupport> || jake: yes, happy teaching everyone [[image:http://proflearn.janison.com/toolbox/images/emoticons/rofl.gif]] ||